Submission statement: yesterday’s schisms were stupid. We should argue over sub replacement fertility rates again instead.
On a more serious note though, the article implies that there are larger underlying psychological mechanisms driving low fertility that render all of the policy levers attempted inadequate. It could suggest some deeper sense of alienation. The question then becomes what systemic changes and policy levers are needed to get people to feel engaged and meaningful again.
kevinfederlinebundle on
We have gotten richer, and children are inferior goods. If your alternative for entertainment was the Ed Sullivan show you’d also turn the TV off and go find someone to have unprotected sex with.
hypsignathus on
Maybe.
Or maybe it’s just that if you free women from the burden of child-rearing–especially as that burden becomes greater per child, in our don’t-let-your-kid-outside-society–more will choose to not have children.
How do you convince someone to have children who doesn’t want to have children? Perhaps more importantly, *should* you convince them? Why is that your place? I find it completely insulting to continually read arguments that are essentially “here is why you should have kids.”
Edit: Surely there is some benefit to the rise of productivity that can be applied to allowing a reduction in population, for the sake of women. So much economic creativity, and yet “pump out more babies” is all we can come up with for the population cliff? Come on.
gringledoom on
Any explanation that doesn’t directly grapple with these graphs seems iffy.
Natalists are rational bros and thus will never respond to the problem of how do you respond to the counterpoint, if having children is so good and easy as you claim why aren’t you having more children
South-Ad7071 on
Subsidise childbirth and tax the singles.
BlackCat159 on
It’s because of woke.
38CFRM21 on
Read the article. It didn’t cover my personal anecdote that my life is a hot fucking mess and kids would make that even messier.
regionalgamemanager on
We’ve all become nihilists
ldn6 on
Because having kids is absolutely exhausting. It’s rewarding for a lot of people but even one child is an absolutely huge responsibility. No amount of policy changes can fix that.
ElectricalShame1222 on
I know it’s old-fashioned to say this, but
admiraltarkin on
> Cash incentives and tax relief won’t persuade people to give up their lives. People will do that for God, for their families, and for their future children.” In other words, no amount of money or social support will inspire people to have children—not unless there is some deeper certainty that doing so makes sense.
My wife (32) and I (33) had this conversation a few days ago. We make ~$400k in a low cost of living city with (grand)parental support close by to help us out. We have generous parental leave (relative to the rest of the US) etc etc.
On paper we **should** have a kid by now, but it’s a momentum thing. Having a kid is a lot of work and that’s not something that I really feel like doing right now. Eventually, yes but right now it’s nice not needing to get a babysitter if we want to go see a movie. In the end, I’m on board with just ripping off the band aid since we’re not getting any younger, but still it’s a hard thing to do for someone who isn’t one of the “I’ve always dreamed of having 6 babies”
13 Comments
Submission statement: yesterday’s schisms were stupid. We should argue over sub replacement fertility rates again instead.
On a more serious note though, the article implies that there are larger underlying psychological mechanisms driving low fertility that render all of the policy levers attempted inadequate. It could suggest some deeper sense of alienation. The question then becomes what systemic changes and policy levers are needed to get people to feel engaged and meaningful again.
We have gotten richer, and children are inferior goods. If your alternative for entertainment was the Ed Sullivan show you’d also turn the TV off and go find someone to have unprotected sex with.
Maybe.
Or maybe it’s just that if you free women from the burden of child-rearing–especially as that burden becomes greater per child, in our don’t-let-your-kid-outside-society–more will choose to not have children.
How do you convince someone to have children who doesn’t want to have children? Perhaps more importantly, *should* you convince them? Why is that your place? I find it completely insulting to continually read arguments that are essentially “here is why you should have kids.”
Edit: Surely there is some benefit to the rise of productivity that can be applied to allowing a reduction in population, for the sake of women. So much economic creativity, and yet “pump out more babies” is all we can come up with for the population cliff? Come on.
Any explanation that doesn’t directly grapple with these graphs seems iffy.
https://preview.redd.it/g6mmrtyc1ceg1.png?width=940&format=png&auto=webp&s=2324b9cad403913ed10d1a6fdcf3ab5c62d95f80
Natalists are rational bros and thus will never respond to the problem of how do you respond to the counterpoint, if having children is so good and easy as you claim why aren’t you having more children
Subsidise childbirth and tax the singles.
It’s because of woke.
Read the article. It didn’t cover my personal anecdote that my life is a hot fucking mess and kids would make that even messier.
We’ve all become nihilists
Because having kids is absolutely exhausting. It’s rewarding for a lot of people but even one child is an absolutely huge responsibility. No amount of policy changes can fix that.
I know it’s old-fashioned to say this, but
> Cash incentives and tax relief won’t persuade people to give up their lives. People will do that for God, for their families, and for their future children.” In other words, no amount of money or social support will inspire people to have children—not unless there is some deeper certainty that doing so makes sense.
My wife (32) and I (33) had this conversation a few days ago. We make ~$400k in a low cost of living city with (grand)parental support close by to help us out. We have generous parental leave (relative to the rest of the US) etc etc.
On paper we **should** have a kid by now, but it’s a momentum thing. Having a kid is a lot of work and that’s not something that I really feel like doing right now. Eventually, yes but right now it’s nice not needing to get a babysitter if we want to go see a movie. In the end, I’m on board with just ripping off the band aid since we’re not getting any younger, but still it’s a hard thing to do for someone who isn’t one of the “I’ve always dreamed of having 6 babies”
It fucking sucks?