Vance’s response was obviously rehearsed and it wasn’t organic at all.
amainwingman on
*The Atlantic* is the only serious publication that doesn’t pull its punches with this administration
NavyJack on
Over/under on us still being in NATO by this summer?
Maximilianne on
FedSoc bros are never beating the allegations
DogboyPigman on
My moderate father, who has always benoaned my nore violent musings, called me up and said I was allowed to indulge my more bloody rhetoric around him. Now we’re not Americans, so it’s likely meaningless, but damn it’s a heelturn for pappy.
ashsolomon1 on
We don’t deserve to have friends, we need to be in timeout.
ihuntwhales1 on
There will be a time when the common American man, gradually, though perhaps for some suddenly, realizes that the very virtues no longer upheld by the government internationally have the same state of abandonment domestically. There will be a wave of contempt for the established order they’ve brought on themselves. But it will be even further from that point that the common man realizes the raw damage that has been done so far.
It will take years. Years to fix all of this. Even if we have a perfect president in 2028 with a will to re-organize our government to never let this happen again, so much has been undone. So much we have to work back from the foundation and up to re-do. There will be a death toll for these actions, adhering to Russia and all. But also to every bit of soft power that helped hundreds of thousands of lives directly. There will be a death toll for all of this. It will be high. [It will be incredibly high.](https://www.dw.com/en/south-africa-usaid-cuts-could-prompt-over-500000-hiv-deaths/a-71777420)
but joe biden sleepy.
Goldmule1 on
I agree that it was an ambush; however, I genuinely think Vance may have been acting unilaterally. When Vance was trying to stir Zelensky up, Trump’s body language and tone made it feel like he wasn’t trying to escalate. It wasn’t until Zelensky made a comment about the US that Trump escalated. Pictures of Rubio sitting completely shell-shocked on the couch also points to this not being a planned shellacking.
It’s been pretty clear that there’s a schism in the White House between the traditional GOP hawks (Rubio and Walz) and the Isolationists (Vance). I wonder if the Ukraine deal was the hawks winning out or a compromise that Vance disagreed with. Instead of being a team player, he decided to act unilaterally to push his vision of US foreign policy when the opportunity presented itself. If that’s the case, that level of unilateral undermining of his colleagues is unprecedented and should be the focus of this event. An American Vice President undermining his own White House’s foreign policy.
If the Democrats had any sense, they may be even able to wedge themselves in this, making public comments about Vance manipulating Trump. That sort of messaging that makes it look like he’s being used has always really gotten under his skin and is the most effective at splitting his base.
Agent2255 on
I don’t know if I agree with that completely.
I think it’s more likely that Vance took advantage of the opportunity, and adapted to inaccurately portray Zelenskyy as a man who doesn’t want peace. First of all, Donald Trump didn’t even want to do this talk, and Macron had to pressure him into it. Secondly, there was a lot of tension, but things didn’t heat up, until Vance decided to push back or argue against Zelenskyy’s truthful claim about how Russia has been the aggressor since 2014, and Putin doesn’t respect diplomacy.
It seemed like Vance didn’t expect him to push back, but took advantage of the opportunity to signal to the base, and confirm all of their conspiracies about how Zelenskyy is stealing American taxpayers’ money.
Donald Trump, for all of his flaws, is a man who knows how to take advantage of moments, that are likely to create a spectacle and attract attention. His concluding words in the tune of “I let this go on for so long, so people could see” and “This would make great television” confirmed as much.
10 Comments
Read here —-> [https://archive.ph/HnYWh](https://archive.ph/HnYWh)
Vance’s response was obviously rehearsed and it wasn’t organic at all.
*The Atlantic* is the only serious publication that doesn’t pull its punches with this administration
Over/under on us still being in NATO by this summer?
FedSoc bros are never beating the allegations
My moderate father, who has always benoaned my nore violent musings, called me up and said I was allowed to indulge my more bloody rhetoric around him. Now we’re not Americans, so it’s likely meaningless, but damn it’s a heelturn for pappy.
We don’t deserve to have friends, we need to be in timeout.
There will be a time when the common American man, gradually, though perhaps for some suddenly, realizes that the very virtues no longer upheld by the government internationally have the same state of abandonment domestically. There will be a wave of contempt for the established order they’ve brought on themselves. But it will be even further from that point that the common man realizes the raw damage that has been done so far.
It will take years. Years to fix all of this. Even if we have a perfect president in 2028 with a will to re-organize our government to never let this happen again, so much has been undone. So much we have to work back from the foundation and up to re-do. There will be a death toll for these actions, adhering to Russia and all. But also to every bit of soft power that helped hundreds of thousands of lives directly. There will be a death toll for all of this. It will be high. [It will be incredibly high.](https://www.dw.com/en/south-africa-usaid-cuts-could-prompt-over-500000-hiv-deaths/a-71777420)
but joe biden sleepy.
I agree that it was an ambush; however, I genuinely think Vance may have been acting unilaterally. When Vance was trying to stir Zelensky up, Trump’s body language and tone made it feel like he wasn’t trying to escalate. It wasn’t until Zelensky made a comment about the US that Trump escalated. Pictures of Rubio sitting completely shell-shocked on the couch also points to this not being a planned shellacking.
It’s been pretty clear that there’s a schism in the White House between the traditional GOP hawks (Rubio and Walz) and the Isolationists (Vance). I wonder if the Ukraine deal was the hawks winning out or a compromise that Vance disagreed with. Instead of being a team player, he decided to act unilaterally to push his vision of US foreign policy when the opportunity presented itself. If that’s the case, that level of unilateral undermining of his colleagues is unprecedented and should be the focus of this event. An American Vice President undermining his own White House’s foreign policy.
If the Democrats had any sense, they may be even able to wedge themselves in this, making public comments about Vance manipulating Trump. That sort of messaging that makes it look like he’s being used has always really gotten under his skin and is the most effective at splitting his base.
I don’t know if I agree with that completely.
I think it’s more likely that Vance took advantage of the opportunity, and adapted to inaccurately portray Zelenskyy as a man who doesn’t want peace. First of all, Donald Trump didn’t even want to do this talk, and Macron had to pressure him into it. Secondly, there was a lot of tension, but things didn’t heat up, until Vance decided to push back or argue against Zelenskyy’s truthful claim about how Russia has been the aggressor since 2014, and Putin doesn’t respect diplomacy.
It seemed like Vance didn’t expect him to push back, but took advantage of the opportunity to signal to the base, and confirm all of their conspiracies about how Zelenskyy is stealing American taxpayers’ money.
Donald Trump, for all of his flaws, is a man who knows how to take advantage of moments, that are likely to create a spectacle and attract attention. His concluding words in the tune of “I let this go on for so long, so people could see” and “This would make great television” confirmed as much.