Feels like the party has gotten the âmoderateâ message loud and clear. Any day now Iâd love to see the âfightâ part.
Any day.
[note: there may be some Dems from New York this applies to more than others]
PersonalDebater on
Emphasis on *both* keywords.
AbunRoman on
Trump won not because a lot of people are conservatives or hold right wing views.
The reason is because people loved his populist rhetoric, big and bold plans, and anti-establishment ideas.
The democrats are too timid, too “establishment”, and always trying to play it safe. I’m sure MAGA would love Bernie if Trump didn’t exist.
PhinsFan17 on
I am loving the folks in this sub intentionally interpreting âI want Democrats to put up a fightâ as âI want Democrats to be more socialist on policyâ. AOC is getting platformed cause sheâs the only one with a spine it seems, not because weâre clamoring for her platform.
Cupinacup on
> Art by Grok
Iâm rolling my eyes and I havenât even started reading the article.
Okay now that Iâve read the first few paragraphs Iâm still rolling my eyes. Somehow all of these pundits are convinced that Obama was a moderate, center-of-the-road candidate. Thatâs how he governed, but he certainly didnât run that way. Obama absolutely ran a populist and progressive anti-war and âanti-establishmentâ campaign in â08. He was seen as less moderate than McCain. Some of the biggest scandals in the Obama campaign were *his ties to literal terrorists*. These pundits somehow speak out of both sides of their mouths when they talk about the need to rerun Obama â08 but also stay the course with slow, incremental policy and not rock the boat with dangerous âpopulism.â
jigma101 on
Oh boy i wonder what he means by-
>Trans issues are different, because they involve questions of fundamental rights. Does a kid with a penis really have the right to change in a girlâs locker room, just by identifying as a woman?
Oh wow, color me shocked, it’s in part another “please throw trans folks under the bus”-style “plea for moderation” that totally ignores the fact that in Trump’s first term shit like bathroom bans were seen as so outlandishly cruel that sports orgs removed their tournments from states attempting them and it was only after 6 years of largely unopposed attempts to make it a thing that people are latching onto transphobia.
Color me fucking shocked.
Goldmule1 on
I am fully convinced the word âmoderateâ has descended to âleftistâ in completely lacking any meaning. Like wtf does moderate even mean anymore? Wtf is a moderate policy in 2024?
bisonboy223 on
Cede just a *little* more to the right, this time I SWEAR it’s the answer bro, all those reasonable moderate Republicans will finally vote for us if we pander to them just a LITTLE bit more
Goldmule1 on
Noah Smith and Matt Yglesias have lost the plot a bit at this point. I think Iâd say that Ezra Klein probably has a better vision for what the future of the Democratic Party looks like. His new book is delightful.
I honestly donât see a viable path for moderating leading to improving democrats image:
Moderating on trans rights -> âOh the republicans are voting for a bill that âkeeps men out of womenâs sportsâ letâs vote for it -> DEMS ADMIT REPUBLICANS WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG ABOUT THE TRANGENDA
Moderate on border -> âPresident ModerateDem signs an executive order to clamp down on illegal border crossingâ -> DEMS ARE PLAYING CATCHUP. TRUMP TOLD US 10 YEARS AGO ABOUT MASSIVE BORDER INVASIONS
If iâm a voter who thinks these are issues, who am I voting for? The ones that yelled about these being issues for years, or the ones that just play catchup?
On the flip side, I feel like this type of article is always ignoring a big elephant: Party platform can easily drive opinion instead of vice versa. If in 2026 suddenly many democrats are running on âWe need to do something about illegal immigration and the border. Trump is all talk no action with the real issues involving illegalsâ, many regular voters will absolutely follow suit and voters who prior didnât really think it was a major issue will think it is. I know that many people like to pretend that only the right wing republican party gets to drive opinion among their voters instead of vice versa, but the fact is there are millions of voters who look up to specific democrats, and hearing ones they trust will say something they didnât think prior was an issue is an issue, will make them think itâs an issue.
Hannig4n on
Every single one of these articles and anyone arguing for a policy shift in any direction is completely missing the point.
Voters do not give a single fuck about policy. They do not understand policy. The median voter approaches policy with a literal 5-year oldâs understanding of any given issue.
The reason why trans kids in sports is such a salient issue for voters is because itâs easy for the mashed potato brained median voter to understand and form a strong opinion on. The reason why ârun government like a businessâ works so well is because itâs simple enough an idea for dummies to adopt and feel good about.
The electorate doesnât care about policy, they care about being entertained. Trump is a good entertainer. Thereâs a reason why so many people keep suggesting fucking Jon Stewart or Stephen A Smith. This is how politics is in the age of social media.
The only important quality you need to evaluate in order to understand how electable a candidate is, is how charismatic they are.
Somehow_alive on
People reflexively hating on a call for moderation and pragmatism just shows how much the sub has become a copy of r/politics lately.
Reminder that all polls show that *democrats* want the party to moderate on the issues, not to mention the median voter, who is to the right of that. Policy matters, even if the vibes-absolutists wish it didn’t.
eman9416 on
You can tell this sub has had a large influx of generic reddit social dems because of a really angry reaction to a perfectly reasonable position that dems need to moderate.
They have also somehow convinced themselves that Biden wasnât the most left wing president since the 60s and Obama ran as an unapologetic liberal in 2008.
15 Comments
Key takeaway for those claiming the Democratic party should become more progressive to get more voters to show up: Not even the Democratic base thinks that in general: https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff839fc44-da69-45e0-96d6-6ec2823fc488_866x720.jpeg
Feels like the party has gotten the âmoderateâ message loud and clear. Any day now Iâd love to see the âfightâ part.
Any day.
[note: there may be some Dems from New York this applies to more than others]
Emphasis on *both* keywords.
Trump won not because a lot of people are conservatives or hold right wing views.
The reason is because people loved his populist rhetoric, big and bold plans, and anti-establishment ideas.
The democrats are too timid, too “establishment”, and always trying to play it safe. I’m sure MAGA would love Bernie if Trump didn’t exist.
I am loving the folks in this sub intentionally interpreting âI want Democrats to put up a fightâ as âI want Democrats to be more socialist on policyâ. AOC is getting platformed cause sheâs the only one with a spine it seems, not because weâre clamoring for her platform.
> Art by Grok
Iâm rolling my eyes and I havenât even started reading the article.
Okay now that Iâve read the first few paragraphs Iâm still rolling my eyes. Somehow all of these pundits are convinced that Obama was a moderate, center-of-the-road candidate. Thatâs how he governed, but he certainly didnât run that way. Obama absolutely ran a populist and progressive anti-war and âanti-establishmentâ campaign in â08. He was seen as less moderate than McCain. Some of the biggest scandals in the Obama campaign were *his ties to literal terrorists*. These pundits somehow speak out of both sides of their mouths when they talk about the need to rerun Obama â08 but also stay the course with slow, incremental policy and not rock the boat with dangerous âpopulism.â
Oh boy i wonder what he means by-
>Trans issues are different, because they involve questions of fundamental rights. Does a kid with a penis really have the right to change in a girlâs locker room, just by identifying as a woman?
Oh wow, color me shocked, it’s in part another “please throw trans folks under the bus”-style “plea for moderation” that totally ignores the fact that in Trump’s first term shit like bathroom bans were seen as so outlandishly cruel that sports orgs removed their tournments from states attempting them and it was only after 6 years of largely unopposed attempts to make it a thing that people are latching onto transphobia.
Color me fucking shocked.
I am fully convinced the word âmoderateâ has descended to âleftistâ in completely lacking any meaning. Like wtf does moderate even mean anymore? Wtf is a moderate policy in 2024?
Cede just a *little* more to the right, this time I SWEAR it’s the answer bro, all those reasonable moderate Republicans will finally vote for us if we pander to them just a LITTLE bit more
Noah Smith and Matt Yglesias have lost the plot a bit at this point. I think Iâd say that Ezra Klein probably has a better vision for what the future of the Democratic Party looks like. His new book is delightful.
Here we go again
https://preview.redd.it/j67av1aya2qe1.jpeg?width=495&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a17a1c7d02ab915b4aa4fce7b950f6d7f5d82da
I honestly donât see a viable path for moderating leading to improving democrats image:
Moderating on trans rights -> âOh the republicans are voting for a bill that âkeeps men out of womenâs sportsâ letâs vote for it -> DEMS ADMIT REPUBLICANS WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG ABOUT THE TRANGENDA
Moderate on border -> âPresident ModerateDem signs an executive order to clamp down on illegal border crossingâ -> DEMS ARE PLAYING CATCHUP. TRUMP TOLD US 10 YEARS AGO ABOUT MASSIVE BORDER INVASIONS
If iâm a voter who thinks these are issues, who am I voting for? The ones that yelled about these being issues for years, or the ones that just play catchup?
On the flip side, I feel like this type of article is always ignoring a big elephant: Party platform can easily drive opinion instead of vice versa. If in 2026 suddenly many democrats are running on âWe need to do something about illegal immigration and the border. Trump is all talk no action with the real issues involving illegalsâ, many regular voters will absolutely follow suit and voters who prior didnât really think it was a major issue will think it is. I know that many people like to pretend that only the right wing republican party gets to drive opinion among their voters instead of vice versa, but the fact is there are millions of voters who look up to specific democrats, and hearing ones they trust will say something they didnât think prior was an issue is an issue, will make them think itâs an issue.
Every single one of these articles and anyone arguing for a policy shift in any direction is completely missing the point.
Voters do not give a single fuck about policy. They do not understand policy. The median voter approaches policy with a literal 5-year oldâs understanding of any given issue.
The reason why trans kids in sports is such a salient issue for voters is because itâs easy for the mashed potato brained median voter to understand and form a strong opinion on. The reason why ârun government like a businessâ works so well is because itâs simple enough an idea for dummies to adopt and feel good about.
The electorate doesnât care about policy, they care about being entertained. Trump is a good entertainer. Thereâs a reason why so many people keep suggesting fucking Jon Stewart or Stephen A Smith. This is how politics is in the age of social media.
The only important quality you need to evaluate in order to understand how electable a candidate is, is how charismatic they are.
People reflexively hating on a call for moderation and pragmatism just shows how much the sub has become a copy of r/politics lately.
Reminder that all polls show that *democrats* want the party to moderate on the issues, not to mention the median voter, who is to the right of that. Policy matters, even if the vibes-absolutists wish it didn’t.
You can tell this sub has had a large influx of generic reddit social dems because of a really angry reaction to a perfectly reasonable position that dems need to moderate.
They have also somehow convinced themselves that Biden wasnât the most left wing president since the 60s and Obama ran as an unapologetic liberal in 2008.
Truly amazing